I thought this module was super interesting and eyeopening, especially when it talks about the hockey players and their birthdays! Shocking!
What areas in your life, or as you were growing up, did you notice that you, or someone you knew, were given opportunities based off of something as random as a birthday rather than talent or skill?
I feel like I was given special opportunities based on my gifted status when I was in K-12. Teachers labeled me as "smart" and I was given a lot more opportunities to do things that other students were not.
I feel like I had some really big advantages from the beginning and that that pushed me to the front early on which got me more advantages which pushed me even further...
I also feel that in certain classes I would get to run errands or do other things for my teachers if I was doing better in that class than other students--I wonder if having "teacher's pets" are even a good thing to have? It might be good for that one student, but what about the rest?
It is appalling to think that one could be at a disadvantage just because of the month one is born in! But it is also very true in my personal experience. On my volleyball team that went to nationals, every single player, with the exception of my little sister, had fall birthdays. This meant that we were at the very top range of the age bracket. My little sister, born in June, should have been doomed to an uphill battle when it came to academics and school sports, according to the Matthew effect. My mom, however, due to past experiences, held her back a full year before starting kindergarten, despite the pleadings and rudeness of school officials and other authorities. Fortunately, my mom stuck to her guns and Pam started a year later than she was supposed to, which put her right in line with students who were born in the fall, if not slightly ahead. Because of this, my sister was always much taller and in more control of her body than her peers, not to mention more skilled with more practice, which gave her a lot of attention when it came to sports. This attention provided her with numerous opportunities that were denied of her younger less experienced peers. She was extremely successful, getting multiple awards and even getting her jersey retired, and I wonder how much of it came from benefits compounded on her original age head start on her peers.
It's crazy how much of a difference age can make. It's cool that you've experienced this first hand! My brother was also held back a year, his birthday is the very end of August. He didn't quite receive the same attention and opportunities as your sister though haha
My sister had to wait a year because she was a student with a late birthday. She wasn't as lucky as to be as talented as your sister, however. She was placed in gifted, though, which im sure opened many educational doors for her!
While reading this book, I really starting thinking about the grouping project we are doing. Do you think that birth month might have an impact that we should explore in our grouping? Outliers mentions how much more efficient classes would be if they were grouped in month categories (i.e. This is the September - November third grade) and I wonder if the same effect could be applied to groups. Would a group heterogeneous when it came to birth months be an effective guideline to consider while grouping?
This is a super interesting idea! Apparently there's some real info backing it up, so you would think that it would be a category to consider while grouping. I want someone to try it!!
Wow, that's a crazy thought. But like Katherine said, definitely something to look into and record data/track it to see how it goes. Maybe even send that data to the author!
I decided to use it as one of my categories for the Ultimate Grouping Project. I figured why not, because, as Katherine mentioned, there is some interesting information backing it up. My highest performing students were all born in the months of September to November with the exception of one! I was not expecting that at all! None of the rest seemed to follow any correlation I could pick up on though.
Whoa! It would be interesting to see if in general the highest performing students tend to be those born in the fall in other people's classes as well.
What do you all think of Terman's "Termite" study? I feel like I experienced a lot of that kind of "gifted" special treatment and I would like to think I am truly a successful "outlier," but now I am not quite sure.
I don't think we should feel badly that we are so successful or that we received advantages, we just need to figure out how to make sure ALL students get lots of great advantages and not just a few.
I definitely feel the same way, Hannah. Ever since we have started to learn more and more about the achievement gap and the Matthew Effect, I've been feeling a little guilty and very lucky. But we shouldn't feel guilty. Like Cynthia mentioned, we, as teachers, need to do what it takes to help our students have these same advantages that we had as students.
Parts of this reading/module really goes back to having a growth mindset and encouraging that mindset in our students, especially if they don't have a lot of given advantages or opportunities.
I thought Lareau's study about families and parenting was really interesting. What opinions did y'all have on it?
I feel like parenting style has such a huge affect on a child's ability to be successful right out of the gate. A lot of times I think we forget that we have been so fortunate to have parents who have given us opportunities to learn how to think introspectively and learn a sense of "entitlement." I wonder how our classrooms would look if all of our students experienced that same kind of "schooling" outside of school.
I thought it was very interesting too! I knew that parenting had some effect on kids, but I thought the reading was super insightful. I can definitely see how my own parents raised me and how that affected me versus a girl I went to high school with who was raised differently. I never understood why until now. I was raised the concerted cultivation style while my friend was raised in the natural growth style. Crazy how it makes sense now!
On page 30, when Gladwell finally tells the reader why he calls the first chapter the "Matthew Effect" he stated something that really bothered me because it is so true and shouldn't be. He said, "It's the best students who get the best teaching and most attention." I'm all for gifted classes and AP classes, but what I'm not okay with is a teacher deliberately giving more to the best students in his/her class. I'm not okay with teachers giving more attention to those students who do well, when all students should get the same attention and care from their teacher.
I completely agree with you, that all students should be given attention and care from their teacher and that it is unfair that good students seem to have a compounding benefit that results in them getting the best teachers and the most attention. But I have to wonder, is there a way we can specialize attention to a student's needs and still have them be on even footing with everyone else?
But I definitely DO see teachers giving more attention to AP and gifted students. They tend to like those classes better and feel they are capable of more.
First, this book simply reinforced what i already felt about the idea of the "American Dream." As the saying now goes, it's not what you know, it's who you know. I think its very sad the way we teach students that failure is their own fault, when in reality, its the combination of a variety of things.
Much like the way hockey members are sorted by age, we are also sorted by age in school. Do you think there is a way to avoid an age advantage in schools like there is in sports teams?
I have thought a lot about this and I feel like it would literally require "moving mountains" to make a change this great happen. Still, I wonder if an all year-round schooling schedule would overturn these birth date cutoffs that seem to be so completely problematic. It is all food for thought I suppose.
I know a lot of elementary schools are trying to eliminate grade levels and go by ability grouping instead. I wonder if you would find that this eliminated that issue or heightened it.
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I thought this module was super interesting and eyeopening, especially when it talks about the hockey players and their birthdays! Shocking!
ReplyDeleteWhat areas in your life, or as you were growing up, did you notice that you, or someone you knew, were given opportunities based off of something as random as a birthday rather than talent or skill?
I thought it was super interesting as well!
DeleteI feel like I was given special opportunities based on my gifted status when I was in K-12. Teachers labeled me as "smart" and I was given a lot more opportunities to do things that other students were not.
I feel like I had some really big advantages from the beginning and that that pushed me to the front early on which got me more advantages which pushed me even further...
DeleteI also feel that in certain classes I would get to run errands or do other things for my teachers if I was doing better in that class than other students--I wonder if having "teacher's pets" are even a good thing to have? It might be good for that one student, but what about the rest?
DeleteThat's a good question Kinsey. I think we should talk about the concept of teacher's pets in class, because I'm not really sure how I feel about it.
DeleteIt is appalling to think that one could be at a disadvantage just because of the month one is born in! But it is also very true in my personal experience. On my volleyball team that went to nationals, every single player, with the exception of my little sister, had fall birthdays. This meant that we were at the very top range of the age bracket. My little sister, born in June, should have been doomed to an uphill battle when it came to academics and school sports, according to the Matthew effect. My mom, however, due to past experiences, held her back a full year before starting kindergarten, despite the pleadings and rudeness of school officials and other authorities. Fortunately, my mom stuck to her guns and Pam started a year later than she was supposed to, which put her right in line with students who were born in the fall, if not slightly ahead. Because of this, my sister was always much taller and in more control of her body than her peers, not to mention more skilled with more practice, which gave her a lot of attention when it came to sports. This attention provided her with numerous opportunities that were denied of her younger less experienced peers. She was extremely successful, getting multiple awards and even getting her jersey retired, and I wonder how much of it came from benefits compounded on her original age head start on her peers.
ReplyDeleteIt's crazy how much of a difference age can make. It's cool that you've experienced this first hand! My brother was also held back a year, his birthday is the very end of August. He didn't quite receive the same attention and opportunities as your sister though haha
DeleteMy sister had to wait a year because she was a student with a late birthday. She wasn't as lucky as to be as talented as your sister, however. She was placed in gifted, though, which im sure opened many educational doors for her!
DeleteI wonder what made the difference there then? I think the birth month has an interesting correlation, but I'm not sure how much it can be relied upon.
DeleteWhile reading this book, I really starting thinking about the grouping project we are doing. Do you think that birth month might have an impact that we should explore in our grouping? Outliers mentions how much more efficient classes would be if they were grouped in month categories (i.e. This is the September - November third grade) and I wonder if the same effect could be applied to groups. Would a group heterogeneous when it came to birth months be an effective guideline to consider while grouping?
ReplyDeleteThis is a super interesting idea! Apparently there's some real info backing it up, so you would think that it would be a category to consider while grouping. I want someone to try it!!
DeleteWow, that's a crazy thought. But like Katherine said, definitely something to look into and record data/track it to see how it goes. Maybe even send that data to the author!
DeleteI decided to use it as one of my categories for the Ultimate Grouping Project. I figured why not, because, as Katherine mentioned, there is some interesting information backing it up. My highest performing students were all born in the months of September to November with the exception of one! I was not expecting that at all! None of the rest seemed to follow any correlation I could pick up on though.
DeleteWhoa! It would be interesting to see if in general the highest performing students tend to be those born in the fall in other people's classes as well.
DeleteWhat do you all think of Terman's "Termite" study? I feel like I experienced a lot of that kind of "gifted" special treatment and I would like to think I am truly a successful "outlier," but now I am not quite sure.
ReplyDeleteI don't think we should feel badly that we are so successful or that we received advantages, we just need to figure out how to make sure ALL students get lots of great advantages and not just a few.
DeleteI definitely feel the same way, Hannah. Ever since we have started to learn more and more about the achievement gap and the Matthew Effect, I've been feeling a little guilty and very lucky. But we shouldn't feel guilty. Like Cynthia mentioned, we, as teachers, need to do what it takes to help our students have these same advantages that we had as students.
DeleteParts of this reading/module really goes back to having a growth mindset and encouraging that mindset in our students, especially if they don't have a lot of given advantages or opportunities.
ReplyDeleteI thought Lareau's study about families and parenting was really interesting. What opinions did y'all have on it?
I feel like parenting style has such a huge affect on a child's ability to be successful right out of the gate. A lot of times I think we forget that we have been so fortunate to have parents who have given us opportunities to learn how to think introspectively and learn a sense of "entitlement." I wonder how our classrooms would look if all of our students experienced that same kind of "schooling" outside of school.
DeleteI thought it was very interesting too! I knew that parenting had some effect on kids, but I thought the reading was super insightful. I can definitely see how my own parents raised me and how that affected me versus a girl I went to high school with who was raised differently. I never understood why until now. I was raised the concerted cultivation style while my friend was raised in the natural growth style. Crazy how it makes sense now!
DeleteOn page 30, when Gladwell finally tells the reader why he calls the first chapter the "Matthew Effect" he stated something that really bothered me because it is so true and shouldn't be. He said, "It's the best students who get the best teaching and most attention." I'm all for gifted classes and AP classes, but what I'm not okay with is a teacher deliberately giving more to the best students in his/her class. I'm not okay with teachers giving more attention to those students who do well, when all students should get the same attention and care from their teacher.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with you, that all students should be given attention and care from their teacher and that it is unfair that good students seem to have a compounding benefit that results in them getting the best teachers and the most attention. But I have to wonder, is there a way we can specialize attention to a student's needs and still have them be on even footing with everyone else?
DeleteBut I definitely DO see teachers giving more attention to AP and gifted students. They tend to like those classes better and feel they are capable of more.
DeleteFirst, this book simply reinforced what i already felt about the idea of the "American Dream." As the saying now goes, it's not what you know, it's who you know. I think its very sad the way we teach students that failure is their own fault, when in reality, its the combination of a variety of things.
ReplyDeleteMuch like the way hockey members are sorted by age, we are also sorted by age in school. Do you think there is a way to avoid an age advantage in schools like there is in sports teams?
I have thought a lot about this and I feel like it would literally require "moving mountains" to make a change this great happen. Still, I wonder if an all year-round schooling schedule would overturn these birth date cutoffs that seem to be so completely problematic. It is all food for thought I suppose.
DeleteI know a lot of elementary schools are trying to eliminate grade levels and go by ability grouping instead. I wonder if you would find that this eliminated that issue or heightened it.
DeleteThe way to play casino games.
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About playing Thai cards or cards is a gamble that Thai people have played since the past. The other cards are cards, each consisting of 10 cards, each with 4 cards, one with 12 cards and the deck. 120 cards, because this card game has been popular to play as a choir. We have put together a game of gambling network computer to serve all customers.
In addition to the card. We also have more than 500 computer games to play with you. Do not wait, we have a very complete service to the gambling service with you to join us for free 24 hours at the site. Gclub มือถือ